(keitai-l) Re: F505i

Jofre,
	Thank you for this explanation.  We have a similar situation in
the USA.  For example the Nokia 3650 has a JAR limit of 100kb, while the
Nokia 3300 has a limit of 64kb.  The J2ME MIDP 1.0 spec. says that a
Midlet can't call an external program ... but I'm guessing that there's
some trick that involves Object Serialization that they are using.

	I recall reading that Samauri Romenesque used a similar
technique.

	By the way, I am looking for a developer to localize our screen
saver/virtual pet product for Japan.  We won't release this for the US
Phones until we see the sort of resolutions we see with the F505i.

	You can see more about that product at: www.thedragonkeeper.com
...

	Thanks to all ... this is a great list.

Bill Volk
Teknik Digital Arts

P.S. I am reminded of the early days of CD-ROM, when (while I was at
Activision) I did some of our first CD-ROM work (1989) on the FM Towns
.. for similar reasons.

-----Original Message-----
From: keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net
[mailto:keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net] On Behalf Of Jofre Palau
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 9:29 AM
To: keitai-l@appelsiini.net
Subject: (keitai-l) Re: F505i



Unfortunately I'm not a developer and I can't provide you with a example
that implements that solution. More over all applications that I have
belong
to Content Providers that for sure wont allow me to send them, but I can
assure you that all DoJa applications that I have seen, use that
workaround
to avoid the 30Kb limitation.

J2ME-MIDP implemented in GSM don't have a "standardized" limitation but
a
handset hardware limitation that ranges from 30Kb (ie:Nokia 6310i) to
300Kb
(i.e Nokia 7650). J2ME-DoJa 1.5/2.0 profile sets a fixed limitation of
30Kb
in the profile itself. Also sets that the maximum HTTP Request size from
a
DoJa application is 10Kb so the mentioned "workaround" has to do several
requests to the server to download the whole application.

A "jar" file in fact is a MIDlet Suite with different midlets within.
For
security reasons a MIDlet can only share information with or call to a
MIDlet that belongs to the same MIDlet Suite. Normally a MIDlet Suite
(aka a
"jar" file) contains ony a single MIDlet.

Hope this helps,

Jofre

-----Mensaje original-----
De: keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net
[mailto:keitai-l-bounce@appelsiini.net]En nombre de Mathew Smith
Enviado el: viernes, 11 de julio de 2003 15:42
Para: keitai-l@appelsiini.net
Asunto: (keitai-l) Re: F505i



Interesting commments, I (as jon mentions) thought that the jar size =
limits were due to the static nature and size of the wap buffer (Euro =
phones -sorry). So when I first read this post I thought there is =
something intrinsic to the DoJa profile implemented on the DoCoMo =
phones. =20

Also I thought that MIDlets (and iAppli's by implication) are not =
allowed to call other midlets outside a specific Midlet suite? - could =
someone clarify for me?

Also if there was a tool that allowed a programmer to build unlimted jar
=
size apps that function over a network in the way Jofre describes, would
=
anyone buy it?

Mathew


-----Original Message-----
F



Jofre Palau wrote:
> Bill,=3D20
> even 30Kb it is very small for a Java Application, developers use a =
=3D
> workaround for that limitation. They build a small (15 to 20 Kb) base
=
=3D
> application that the first time that it's executed connects back to =
the =3D
> server and downloads extra chunks of code. No only extra resources but
=
=3D
> actual code. Notice that the limitation is a DoCoMo DoJa 2/1.5 =3D
> limitation and not a handset issue.

If you have any code that demonstrates this (for cldc) i'd=20
be really interested in seeing it.

My recollection is that the limits on download size are due=20
to concerns about network traffic / user packet cost.

j.


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