On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, cfb wrote:
> You don't have to tell me about point cards... of the multitude
> of point cards I have, only one has a barcode (Good Will) and the
> rest have a number or mag stripe (or both).
So any of those that have a number could just as easily have a bar
code instead, or along with the number. The additional cost, if
the cards are issued in any reasonable quantity, would be too small
to count.
> I'd rather have a
> uber-point-card in the form of an RF ID tag on my key chain that
> worked across multiple stores... I suspect that this might not
> be very compatiable with stores' loss control systems, but I'd
> use it a lot more
It's not much problem making it compatable; there are a fairly
limited number of RF ranges used by popular loss control systems.
Whether you went every merchant to be able to identify you individually
and share you data with other merchants (or, more likely, sell it
to a data consolidator) is another matter entirely.
> > I could actually see this being really, really big in Japan, if
> > only enough people here had computers.
>
> ...or keitai (that were as useful as GP computers)?
Well, my point was that you probably can't attach this bar code
scanner to a keitai. If you can (and I don't see why not--you can
plug in an external keyboard or Pochi tail, right?) then a lot more
people will be able to scan a code and get to a web page.
>
> > > A general purpose scanner would be cool. A specialized barcode only
> > > laser scanner would be stupid. Barcodes are not nearly ubiquitous as
> > > one might think.
> >
> > What do you mean by that. I.e., where do barcodes need to be that
> > they aren't now, and what makes them hard to put there?
>
> Humm... time to apply the old "wallet check" test (pulls out wallet
> and thumbs through all the non-monitary ephermia). Discovery?
> Three seperate types of barcodes (one 2D barcode)... and on the
> "point card" used the most? none. Percentage of things having
> a barcode? <20%. Ratio of mag stips to barcodes: 2/1.
Yeah, but how many things could just as easily have a barcode. This
is the point you don't seem to be getting; it costs the same to
print a barcode on somethingas it does just to print a number.
For the magstripe cards, if the cards need to be rewritten, the
barcodes won't work. But in a lot of those applications they don't
need to be, and again you could just stuff on a barcode instead of
the magstripe. (Or along with it, if you need to be able to read
the information in that format.)
Converting from a printed number to a barcode is so cheap and easy
that even very small businesses can easily afford it. You can't
say that about most other technologies.
> > Barcodes are ubiquitous on anything sold in a shop. I can't imagine
> > that any medium-to-large retailer with a POS system would ever
> > stock something without an EAN-13 on it; the cost of dealing with
> > it would be just too high.
>
> Yes, well, until upc-barcode.org finally comes on-line, offering the
> individual consumer to acutally make use of the barcodes they run
> across in their every day life....
It's actually freeupc.org. And give me some time. Or better yet,
volunteer to help out.
> ...barcodes are going to be corporation
> mediated experiments in consumer adoption failure. I.E. barcodes are
> currently designed and deployed to help companies solve inventory and
> stocking issues... which is at least twice removed from the consumer.
Actually, also PoS, which is only one level away from the consumer.
But that aside, the other problem is to get readers into the hands
of consumers.
> > And the cost of getting barcodes on to
> > somewhat-to-very ephermial printed matter (advertisements, loyalty
> > cards, etc.) is very, very low.
>
> I would change that to "the cost of getting barcodes on [...] mass
> printed matter". Currently, the non-usefulness and cost of getting
> barcodes on (any) printed matter is so high that there is almost
> zero demand for it.
Once again, it's not the cost that makes for low demand. The cost
is practically nil. (Once you pay the one-time cost of a bar-code
generation program--or just grab a free one--it's no more expensive
than adding a piece of clip art to a document. Just paste it in.)
> > [...] it will virtually never produce an error, and
> > require a rescan a reasonably small percentage of the time.
>
> That may change when you start talking about news print, television
> and other non-traditional barcoded media.
With newsprint its fine. I'm not talking about television, movies,
radio stations, or other non-print media. I don't think support
for that is required.
> > General purpose scanning, on the other hand, is a lot more expensive,
> > a lot less reliable, and is useful for what?
>
> Useful for what? Scanning documents who's dead-tree edition I really
> don't want to hang onto... and in FAX-centric Japan, scanning is a
> communications medium in and of itself.
This has gone into a completely different world, unless you have
a full page scanner that fits into a pocket, stores several hundred
pages, and costs less than $40. You were saying, as I saw it, that
the CueCat folks would have done much better in their market by
introducing a general purpose scanner.
> > Anyway, bar code scanners should definitely be in keitai. Just to
> > keep this on topic for the list. :-)
>
> I can't think of anything more useless to clutter up the form factor
> with.
What do you mean by "clutter"? It's certainly not going to add any
extra size or weight to the current set of phones, they've gotten
so big anyway.
> When some smart cookie realizes that the keitai is the *perfect*
> device to turn into a bluetooth access point/hub (dropping out to
> ethernet on the recharging station), then *maybe* a barcode scanner
> might be a nifty accessory to add on to a key chain (and I'd say that
> it would be far better to have an tunable RF ID tag built into the
> bar code/bluetooth transmitter)
This is
1. Another thing not to buy, or leave at home.
2. Predicated on technology which is still "coming soon now," and
may be for quite some time yet.
3. Makes for a significantly more expensive consumer product.
4. In the case of the RF ID tag thing, makes for a significantly
more expensive and less ubiquitous itentifiable item.
Summary: barcodes are basically free to print, are already there
on a huge number of items, and can be scanned very cheaply and
reliably. A scanner in a phone would add less than a dollar to the
manufacturing cost. Given the application to drive it, this could
happen easily.
BTW, I'd love to see some experiments done with recognising bar
codes photographed by a phone's camera. But I don't hold out much
hope for that; it's a much tougher task than that of a regular bar
code scanner.
cjs
--
Curt Sampson <cjs_at_cynic.net> +81 90 7737 2974 http://www.netbsd.org
Don't you know, in this new Dark Age, we're all light. --XTC
Received on Mon Feb 11 04:08:20 2002